Except your truth isn't backed up by any proof. Ours is backed up by the Bible, nature, and faith.
There is no God. There are no devils, no angels, no heaven or h/ell. There is only our natural world and we can choose to make that world a better place by living ethically or make it a worse place by being intolerant, bigoted, irresponsible, and closed-minded.
While you may find that hard to believe, it is the truth, and I am really hoping that you will be accepting of this and open your mind to this, and be willing to really hear the truth, and accept it.
Funny, ain't it? how I can use the exact same words to show you MY truth.
Except your truth isn't backed up by any proof. Ours is backed up by the Bible, nature, and faith.
Tra, I realize you have a cement block around your brain and everything I say to you is pointless, but I'm going to say this anyway. Having "faith" that your opinion is true does not make it true. Jeez, if the world worked that way, imagine the courtroom scenes. "Your Honor, I have no evidence, but I have faith that my client is not guilty." "Oh okay then. Let him go free."
Having "faith" that the bible is true does not make it true.
Fitting the laws of nature into what you want to be true does not make your statements about "intelligent design" valid.
And you know what? Even if your whole ideology is true, I'd still reject it. There's just too much in your holy book I don't agree with, and I think standing by my moral convictions is far more important than appeasing some dictator God.
<<< There is no God. There are no devils, no angels, no heaven or h/ell. There is only our natural world and we can choose to make that world a better place by living ethically or make it a worse place by being intolerant, bigoted, irresponsible, and closed-minded. >>>
So, if you believe that where do you turn when the whole world turns upside down on you? What did you do on 9/11? What did you do when the life of someone you loved hung in the balance? Who was there for you when all humans failed you?
I feel truly sorry for Atheists. It must be a very lonely life with no one to count on, and no hope for a better tomorrow. [img]frown.gif[/img]
So, if you believe that where do you turn when the whole world turns upside down on you? What did you do on 9/11? What did you do when the life of someone you loved hung in the balance?
I turn to people: people I know, and artists who make life beautiful and tolerable in spite of its harshness. You can tell me you can't always count on people, and that's true--but you can't always count on your God, either. After all, he just might sweep you away in a hurricane if it's on his "to do" list that day.
I feel truly sorry for Atheists. It must be a very lonely life with no one to count on, and no hope for a better tomorrow.
And I feel sorry for people who are so pessimistic they don't recognize or appreciate all the goodness in THIS life, THIS world and so many of their fellow humans. Human beings can actually accomplish things to make a better tomorrow. A God who needs to be worshipped, placated and pleaded with before he'll agree not to crush you with a tree today isn't so dependable.
Furthermore, it seems to me the epitome of loneliness = spending your time talking to some Guy in the Sky who isn't even there.
<<< I turn to people: people I know, and artists who make life beautiful and tolerable in spite of its harshness. You can tell me you can't always count on people, and that's true--but you can't always count on your God, either. After all, he just might sweep you away in a hurricane if it's on his "to do" list that day. >>>
While I also turn to art, especially the written word, to heal the wounds of this world, there has to be something to give you hope that beyound all the bad is good and reason. And He's not "MY" God, God belongs to everyone, even people who don't believe the way I do. I think somewhere along the line you got a very misconcieved idea of God. In my view, it's because of God we can weather the hurricane and know that these obstacles put in our way are not in vain, nor are they insurmountable.
<<< And I feel sorry for people who are so pessimistic they don't recognize or appreciate all the goodness in THIS life, THIS world and so many of their fellow humans. Human beings can actually accomplish things to make a better tomorrow. A God who needs to be worshipped, placated and pleaded with before he'll agree not to crush you with a tree today isn't so dependable. >>
Again, you have a misconception of most Christians there. By and large, it's the Christians I know that are the happiest people. And I find your statement kind of offenisve because I think there is SO MUCH beauty and goodness in this world. And I do think one person can make a difference. Can I use one of my all time favorite quotes on faith here? Trust me, once you see where it's from, your head won't explode and you can truly appreciate it [img]smile.gif[/img]
"If life teaches us anything at all, it teaches us that there are so many happy endings that the man who does not believe in God needs his rationality called into serious judgement."
- Stephen King, from the novel "IT"
Isn't that just awesome? Then again, I am a HUGE King fan, so obviously I love it. [img]wink.gif[/img]
<< Furthermore, it seems to me the epitome of loneliness = spending your time talking to some Guy in the Sky who isn't even there. >>
How do you know God isn't there?
This is why I believe and have always believed in God, it's just been the religious part that has changed with the years really: You can take science and argue the universe down to a single grain of dust or a single atom or molecule that started the universe, and then you have to ask: How did it get there?
So honestly science doesn't come in conflict with my faith because they could prove the universe's birth a million times over with a definitve answer why the universe began in hte first place.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh-ho! Great the BIBLE!Originally posted by Tra:
Except your truth isn't backed up by any proof. Ours is backed up by the Bible, nature, and faith.
Emma, do you realize that you haven't actually quoted any evidence from the bible? What is it?
I notice no-one's replied to my thread since I last visited. You know why I bet that it? BECAUSE YOU CAN'T THINK OF A RESPONSE. READ IT. There's no reason we couldn't have a sunset without a God.
Ok, on the one hand you are arguing that there is no God (or if there is He's not all-loving)because of all the evil in the world. On the other hand you are arguing that we Christians don't see the good in the world now. Hmm...
As for faith...no, faith does not make anything true. Something that is true is true, regardless of what anyone thinks about it. Like God and the Bible.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1. I'm not arguing that there's no God because of all the bad. I'm just saying you're wrong that there's SO much good in the world!Originally posted by Tra:
[QB]Ok, on the one hand you are arguing that there is no God (or if there is He's not all-loving)because of all the evil in the world. On the other hand you are arguing that we Christians don't see the good in the world now. Hmm...
2. Come on! When did I EVER say that Christians don't see the good in the world?
<< 1. I'm not arguing that there's no God because of all the bad. I'm just saying you're wrong that there's SO much good in the world!
2. Come on! When did I EVER say that Christians don't see the good in the world? >>
1. I don't think Tra is wrong, I think there is alot of good and beauty in this world. Some moments I find so much beauty around me that I feel like crying. Sometimes it's just driving through town with all the lights on at night and singing along to my favorite song, other times it's sitting around the kitchen table with my family eating and laughing. Honestly I think we're conditioned to see the evil in the world because there certainly are some very bad things happening on this planet.
A quote...no it's not the Bible or anything to be taken as gospel, but it sums up why I believe and I think it's one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard. Definetly something I try to remember:
"If life teaches us anything it all, it teaches us that there are so many happy endings that the man who believes there is no God needs his rationality called into serious judgement."
- Stephen King, as written in "IT"
Now, I know King's not a religious icon, but he's one awesome guy and guess what...also a Christian! Methodist, to be exact.
2. No, you didn't say Christians don't see the good in the world. The Happy Heathen did make some noises to the effect though, which was what I was responding to above. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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